tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5216738179263317509.post4522947762902442519..comments2024-01-08T00:25:24.777-08:00Comments on Philosophy of Science Portal: Eleventh hour legal wranglingMercuryhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13757909461674304095noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5216738179263317509.post-30854543871495376502008-08-22T04:52:00.000-07:002008-08-22T04:52:00.000-07:00I found interesting the following conclusions from...I found interesting the following conclusions from the Edward Teller report <A HREF="http://www.sciencemadness.org/lanl1_a/lib-www/la-pubs/00329010.pdf" REL="nofollow">Ignition of the Atmosphere from Nuclear Bombs</A>.<BR/><BR/><I>"no self-propagating chain of nuclear reactions is likely to be started."</I><BR/><BR/><I>"There remains the distant probability that some other less simple mode of burning may maintain itself in the atmosphere."</I><BR/><BR/><I>"Even if the reaction is stopped within a sphere of a few hundred meters radius, the resultant earth-shock and the radioactive contamination of the atmosphere might become catastrophic on a world-wide scale."</I><BR/><BR/>Dr. Teller's estimation that destruction of life on Earth appears to be possible but not likely was notably sufficient assurance for the experiment to move forward.JTankershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16426366851196200839noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5216738179263317509.post-2480081988598243202008-08-21T10:01:00.000-07:002008-08-21T10:01:00.000-07:00In the interest of getting the facts straight, I w...In the interest of getting the facts straight, I would invite folks to look through the actual report that is linked from the blog item. Here's what I told Walter in an e-mail:<BR/><BR/>"I’m not a physicist, certainly … to paraphrase Will Rogers, I only know what I read in the papers. And here’s what the physicists said in LA-602, relating to the temperatures required to begin a self-propagating chain of nuclear reactions in the atmosphere: 'It is impossible to reach such temperatures unless fission bombs or thermonuclear bombs are used which greatly exceed the bombs now under consideration.' In short, they concluded the bombs were not powerful enough to set the atmosphere on fire. Which is what I wrote."Alan Boylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18020918751604373179noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5216738179263317509.post-81685458114222621032008-08-21T01:07:00.000-07:002008-08-21T01:07:00.000-07:00Alan:Dr. Edward Teller did not conclude that a nuc...Alan:<BR/><BR/>Dr. Edward Teller did not conclude that a nuclear explosion was not powerful enough to trigger atmospheric detonation of the Nitrogen. Get your facts straight. A nuclear explosion is more than energetic enough to reach the fusion ignition temperature. That's what detonates the Deuterium-Lithium mixture in Hydrogen bombs. <BR/><BR/>However, the air is too thin for the fusion reaction to propagate, and the Nitrogen fusion reaction that takes place whenever a Hydrogen bomb is detonated quickly stops once the fireball expands and cools below the ignition temperature.<BR/><BR/>Dr. Teller concluded that the atmosphere was too thin [only 4E19 nuclei/cc of air] in order for a self-propagating fusion reaction to ignite the atmosphere, and that it would have to be at least twice as thick [dense] before there was a concern.<BR/><BR/>However, his conclusion left some wiggle room, and encouraged further study.<BR/><BR/>The additional concern raised in court was not the damage that a wayward errant beam might cause to the equipment. The concern is that it might strike a vat of liquid Nitrogen, internally raise the temperature to beyond the fusion ignition temperature, and detonate the Nitrogen. The density [thickness] of liquid Nitrogen is about 1,000 times greater than the gaseous Nitrogen in our air, and more than adequate for a self-propagating fusion ignition, according to Teller's work. The only question is whether the fusion ignition temperature could be reached by an errant beam striking the Nitrogen. The same is true for the Carbon beam dump, which also has good Carbon-fusion potential, should the beam-spreaders fail and the energy not be evenly dispersed.<BR/><BR/>To my knowledge, no one [other than myself and a few physicists I work with] has examined those fusion potentials from a wayward beam.<BR/><BR/>These are concerns that should worry every citizen of Geneva, because such an ignition would be quite similar to the Tsar Bomba blast of 50 Megatons equivalent, though likely larger.<BR/><BR/>Incidentally, the Nitrogen fusion route is far more energetic than the Deuterium fusion route, though most people ordinarily think of Hydrogen fusion as being the most energetic - not so. That is why Teller was concerned about it then.<BR/><BR/>Walter L. WagnerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com